Hey, how's it going? Everything good?

Yeah, I'm doing great. And you?

Pretty good, just another Thursday afternoon, you know? A bit tired, but hanging in there.

Yeah, I feel you. It's that kind of day.

So, let's dive into it. You've been making music for quite a few years now, but this upcoming album will be your first full-length release under the name Bensbeendead. How do you feel now that you're getting close to putting it out?

Well, technically, it's not my first full-length album, but it's the first one under this new name. I've always been working on albums, so the process feels familiar. However, with this one, I really want it to be the best representation of my music so far. So, there's definitely some nervousness and excitement. I'm overthinking it a bit, to be honest. But overall, I'm excited to finally release it, get it off my plate, and get feedback from people.

When you say you want to get it off your plate, do you mean you're ready for the next project or just excited for people to hear it?

Yeah, I mean, I'm definitely excited for people to hear it. But I've been working on some of these songs since 2019, maybe even 2020, before I started Gardening. (His pandemic creation release back in 2020) So, I'm kind of ready to move on from them. I've been tweaking mixes right up until now, but there comes a point where I have to be done with it. Even though I have said that for months, I am genuinely excited to see what people think. Plus, I've listened to these songs so many times that I can't experience them like someone hearing them for the first time. So, I'm eager to know what that feels like for others.

I want to talk a little more about the mindset behind your music. Has it shifted since you started this project? Is the message you want to put out the same, or has it evolved over time?

Oh it definitely has shifted over time. When I first started, I was more wide-eyed and excited about the possibilities. Now, things have changed in the music industry, and it has dampened some of that initial enthusiasm. However, I still have that core belief in reaching out to specific people who truly appreciate and listen to music with intention. I'm excited for those individuals to hear my music, just as I set out to do from the beginning. So, while the concept has changed, that fundamental desire remains the same.

Can you elaborate a bit more on that? How has the concept changed, and how does it still align with your vision?

Sure. The concept has evolved, but not entirely. It has always been about feeling unsure and understanding that it is okay not to have everything figured out. “Imposter Syndrome” was the original working title because that's what I felt as a musician, constantly questioning myself. Though the name has changed, the underlying theme remains. You can lose confidence and be uncertain, but there's a certain comfort in knowing that everyone else goes through it too.

Interesting. Now, let's talk about collaborating with other artists. You have some impressive features on this album, like Nate Traveler, Mick Jenkins, and Drey Armani. Do you enjoy collaborating with other artists, or do you find it challenging to maintain your vision while incorporating their thoughts and opinions?

It is honesty a toss-up. It all depends on who the person is and what their energy is. I will say that I'm a very hard person to work with and that I'm super controlling. Like, I need things to be my way. A part of that is that I have pretty bad OCD. Especially when it comes down to mixing a session, I have OCD about how loud every instrument should be and stuff. So when I work with other people, I kind of have a hard time relinquishing that control. But I really like collaborating with people when I can. And this sounds bad, but when I can work them like clay, and I can kind of take what I love about what they do and mold it into my world it is such an exciting experience for me. I'm still trying to get better at collaborating in a more open way, but right now, I kind of know that about myself, that I'm not great at not having control over the music.

Are there any artists that you have worked with that haven't let you have the control you would like, and therefore you don't want to work with them anymore?

I don't want to give names….

No, no, no, no, no you don’t have to give names I am just curious if this is a frequent issue.

(I absolutely wanted him to give names. I live for the drama.)

Yeah, for sure. I have to assume that in the same way that I want control of what I'm doing, those people want control too. You probably wouldn't be making music if you didn't have a vision for it. And if my vision is different than your vision, then you're probably not going to want to do what my vision is. But I'm going to be the same way and say that my vision is gonna be different than yours. But that's why it makes it cool when you really do line up, you know, and like, there are definitely people that I have worked with that I did not line up with, and I probably didn't work with them again. But then there are people like the people that I always work with that make my music better that I could have ever dreamed.

Who are the people you always work with?

Brendan Bennett, Dave Gutter, Libby Thompson Tony McNaboe, Eva Honey, the list goes on but, yeah there aren’t a ton. At this point in my career I like people that I kind of know what they're going to do, so to speak.

Makes sense. Thanks for including me. Going after that previous question, is there anyone who didn't make it onto this project that you would love to collaborate with in the future?

Yeah, I mean, a lot of people. I would say one that I really wanted to work with was Ben Kessler. I would say, you know, shooting big, Bon Iver, Childish Gambino. Yeah, people that I think I could take what they do and bring it into a different world.

For people who don't know– you write, produce, mix all of your own stuff. So when you say you want to collaborate with Bon Iver or Childish Gambino do you mean that you want to have them feature on one of your songs, or do you want to write for them?

Yeah, I think starting out, it would be nice to have me be able to take what they do and put it over what I do. You know, like, I know what their voices do, I know the way that they would hit certain productions. So I think it would be cool to kind of just use them as instruments. That probably sounds bad but that would be cool to me. But also, yeah, I think it would be cool to write for them. I think obviously being fans of theirs, there are certain things that when you listen to somebody's music, and you're like, "Oh, I really wish they would make this kind of song, I really wish that they would rap like this," stuff like that. I think it would be cool to be able to have some say in that.

Even though you've only been putting out music for a few years, the industry has changed quite a bit since you started. The rise of marketing through social media platforms like TikTok and Instagram has uprooted a lot of the traditional music marketing that we are accustomed to. What is your strategy to promote this album and make it stand out from other projects? Do you have any concerns about it?

Yeah, definitely concerned because it feels like there are a lot of musicians now, and there are a lot of people just kind of churning music out. And a lot of stuff feels super gimmicky. So that's my main concern, not making it feel like a gimmick. The only thing I can do is just try to get people interested in the music the same way I'm interested in music, which is not trying to trick them into enjoying it, but really, just because I love listening to music and all the feelings that music gives you. So it's definitely a concern of how to go about doing marketing, and I try to keep up with an internet presence. Although I do maintain that having an internet presence is just unhealthy for people in general. But yeah, I think I just want to try to get people to like music because it's good music and nothing else. I don't want people to tune in because I'm making a fool of myself on the internet or, you know, using tactics like TikTok and stuff. I just want to convince people, like, "Hey, if you like interesting music, I hope you like this."

Do you think you can hear in people's music when they're doing it for themselves or whether they're doing it just to catch onto the latest marketing trend?

Yeah, for sure. I think there's a bit of a subconscious balance that people don't realize. You can go into something, you can go into making something super commercial or something that you heard, but there's always going to be your spin on it because it's all you can do. You can't just emulate something entirely; you're going to have your own version of it regardless of whether you're trying or not. But yeah, you can tell when it's just like, "Okay, I mean, that's why sounds develop, right? Like somebody starts a sound and then other people follow it." And yeah, I think that's just going to be that way forever. People want their music to be heard. And the one thing is like, "Would you rather it be heard, then, like, you actually believe in it?" I'm like, I would never want my music to be heard if I didn't like it. And so I wouldn't want to be making something that would go viral, even if I didn't like it. I don't really understand that.

When it comes to songwriting, do you feel that you were inspired more by the dark times and emotions in your life or happier moments?

It's weird. I'm actually inspired more by happier moments to make music. When I'm having happier moments in my life, I want to make music. But I just think it's so cheesy to write about happy shit. I hate the rhetoric of "Oh, you should write about happy things because we need more happy music." That shit will never sound good, no matter how many times you try it or how many different ways you try to write about happy shit. So, I love to just write about sad things because it always sounds better.

Switching gears here a little bit, which song off the album are you most proud of? And why?

I would say I am most proud of probably either "Sleep Half of It" or "Who Are You Loving?" Honestly, the combo of the two of them, you could just pretty much consider one long song. But yeah, the chords and the textures of "Sleep Half of It" and the intricate little details of every moment of that song. The outro, the horns, it's just truly something I didn't even imagine. I remember making that song and having a chorus, verse, chorus, I knew that it was going to be like a Mick Jenkins verse. And then I was like, "I don't know where to go with this thing." But in the end, I like the direction that I took it. To me, it’s really cool because I don’t think it is what anyone would expect to hear at the end of that song. Honestly, I think that's the coolest thing about my music—it is super unexpected. You could say my name and have no idea what a song would sound like. That's why I hate when people say, "Oh, you sound like this." I'm like, "No, I don't sound like anything." I might have moments that sound like things, but if I put out a song and you clicked on it, you would have no idea what it was going to sound like before you heard it. And then "Who Are You Loving?" It just has so many switches in the production. And the harmonies – the melodies are crazy. Yeah, I think just the combo of those two is very, very cool to me. I should probably say– my album is called “Sail Eden.” Yeah, I should just say that right?

Do you want to talk about the concept of Sail Eden?

Sure. Yeah. So I was kind of lost as far as where I wanted to– or I guess how I wanted to present this album and how I wanted to present these songs. And I was doing a lot of walks with my dad, (our dad) I was telling him about my frustrations with the way that music is consumed now and how it is just a lot of churned-out nonsense to me, and how the machine makes people listen to music through algorithms and all this stuff. I was like ‘fuck, I don't, I don't even like listening to music anymore because I just find it all boring.’ And he (our dad) was telling me about how when he was younger, he ran a sightseeing boat tour out of Bar Harbor, Maine. And it was called the Eden and he was telling me about how there was another sightseeing tour that was a way bigger 200-person boat. It was kind of the main sightseeing tour that all the tourists would go on called the Acadian. And you know, it was a type of sightseeing tour that did the same spiel every time you went on the boat. They took you to the exact same spots every time and said the exact same things. He went on to explain how his tour was different. His was a small boat that only held six people. So he would take them to pretty much a different spot every time– show them different things– and you would also get to sail way faster than if you're on a 200-person boat. Just the experience was just more interesting. It would frustrate him so much that he couldn't get those people who were riding on the Acadian to come on his boat, and, long story short, he was telling me about how he had to make a decision about you're going to do and then you just kind of live with that decision without letting yourself feel the regrets of whatever decision you make He told me that he probably could have worked for the Acadian and had 200 people on his boat but he wanted to do a different thing. Eventually, he accepted that by doing something different than everyone else you’re not always going to come out on top and make the most money. In the end, he told me ‘You need to make music for the Eden, you don't make music for the Acadian.’ And that really stuck in my head. I wanted to kind of center it around that idea of not trying to follow the masses and not trying to please, you know, the every person and just trying to do what was authentic to me. Now I just have to hope that there will be people out there that understand what I'm trying to do and enjoy it.

Is there someone that you look up to who you believe is making music, not necessarily for the masses, but truly and authentically for themselves? All while still being successful?

Sure. I mean, Bon Iver is one. You listen to his records or their records, and it’s, it's a combination of some of the most beautiful sounds in the world that, you know, there's hardly ever choruses, there's hardly ever like–it's like–you're not going to hear a Bon Iver record that's like, oh, here's another one of them following the trend– like how pop punk just came back– so here's a Bon Iver pop-punk record. Like, that's never gonna happen. And I just, you know, I don't want to be somebody who's just constantly trying to chase a trend.

Good answer. Three more questions that are all shorter for you. Shall we round out this interview?

Sure, let's do it.

Recently, we have been seeing older songs getting a second chance on the charts through various TikTok trends. Is there a song of yours that you'd like to see get a second chance, a song that, in your opinion, didn't get the love it deserved?

Yeah, that's frustrating because TikTok trends usually require songs to be sped up, which I find so annoying. But yeah, it's an interesting question that follows up on what I was just saying. In the music industry, there's often this notion that if a song doesn't blow up in the first week, it's done, and we're done with it. But there's definitely a trend of songs getting a resurgence in the charts, whether through TikTok or other means. So if the question is, which song of mine would I like to see get a second chance? There are a few. One of them is an early track I made called "Rude" before I even adopted the name Bensbeendead. I still think it's sick, and it would be cool if it got more recognition. Another one is a song called "Bounty" that's super fun and up-tempo. I think it would do well in a resurging TikTok platform. And finally, "Am I" from my last project, "Lovely Creatures." I consider it one of the coolest songs I've ever made, and it deserves more love.

Interesting choices.

By the way, I have to mention that "Three Words" seems to be getting a lot of love on SoundCloud. It's currently my most popular song there with 40,000 plays.

Well that’s my favorite song of yours so that makes sense.

Really? Damn.

You recently opened for Caye on the East Coast leg of his tour. How was that experience for you, and do you enjoy touring?

Opening for Caye was an awesome experience. My sister, who is now my manager, (me) took the initiative and cold-emailed their management to ask if I could open for their tour. They liked the music and gave us the opportunity. It was amazing, especially in the beginning when we received their positive response. The tour itself was just incredible. Caye’s group of band members and their manager were all super nice people. It was really fun to tour with them. They are also incredibly talented musicians, and their set every night was awesome to watch. We played in front of some really big crowds, which was exhilarating. I haven't had many opportunities to perform live recently, despite putting out a lot of music, so it was truly fulfilling to play the songs I had envisioned performing. Overall, it was a fantastic experience. I love touring, although I always get anxious leading up to it. Once it starts, though, I just fall in love with it. We only did four shows on this tour, but I wish we could have done more. It was just a lot of fun.

I love that. So, would you be open to hitting the road again?

Absolutely, I would definitely go on the road again. I had a blast, and I'm eager to experience it all over again.

Last question for you – going off of that question. Once you start headlining tours, what are you asking for in your green rooms?

Oh, wow. My rider? I would say a bottle of white wine, maybe a couple of bottles of white wine. And pizza. I love pizza.

White wine and pizza. Keeping it simple. All right. Well, those are all the questions I have for you. Is there anything else you want to say before we round up this interview?

I really hope you liked my album.

Great, Simple message. Love it.